National Arboretum

Discussions about a fitting memorial to the 14th/20th King's Hussars.
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Bob_H
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Bob_H » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:35 pm

Jock,

I get no results if I type in "Hussars" or "Dragoons"
Owfen born and Warburtons bred :lol:

Les
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Les » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:46 am

Having thought more about it I think I should have copied the whole of the reply I received and not just the financial bit. So for the benefit of anyone interested here's the full email.


"Thank you for your recent query.



The Arboretum does not itself build memorials we only provide a home and setting for them, consequently, it is up to a sponsor to come forward with an idea and then fully fund the design, build and future maintenance of the memorial.



Since The Royal British Legion took over the Arboretum in 2003 the Charitable Objectives have been tightened up. Firstly we commemorate those who died in the service of their country, which clearly applies to all those who took part in Freshman, secondly, those who served or suffered in the service of their country, and finally those who wish to be commemorated in some other way. Only the first two categories can have a memorial and this must be sponsored by a “national” organisation, such as a Regiment or Regimental Association. The third must be feature which enhances the arboretum from a visitor perspective, i.e. a piece of artwork, stone seat, pay for a path etc.



Briefly, all proposals need to be approved by our Memorials Advisory Committee which sit once a quarter, papers for the next meeting are required by 30th August 2013. The Memorials Advisory Committee require Engineers scale drawings of all proposals together with details of materials to be used together with any signage/text and the method of construction.



With regard to financial implications the sponsoring organisations has to bear the full design and build costs and retains ownership, make arrangements for future maintenance, covering the maintenance over the next 20 years including the area immediately around the memorial/feature and either insure the memorial/feature themselves or have it included in our insurance and pay us the annual premium. This currently works out at £10 per £1,000 of the replacement value. In addition there is a £1,000 non-refundable application fee and the Arboretum would request that you make a donation of £36 per square metre of space occupied.





If you have any queries or wish to meet to discuss this further please do not hesitate to get in touch my direct dial is 01283 799861.

Regards

Paul Kennedy

Arboretum Curator"

Johnny Morris
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Johnny Morris » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:31 pm

UPDATE

Whilst Darryl is busy trying to put together the costings for a memorial I have managed to get some news about the £3000 paving stones.

In November this year, all the Cavalry Colonels of Regiments (Not Commanding Officers) will meet as I understand they do each year, one of the items up for discussion is the Paving Stones.

As I understand it, one of the points for discussion will be which Orbat will be used to decide who may get one of these stones, which I assume will have to be funded by the relevant regiment, either with or without financial help from the present regiment.
I will use the case of KRH AS A POSSIBLE EXAMPLE ONLY

If the 1980 Orbat was used for example then the KRH Lineage would be - 14/20th Kings Hussars and Royal Hussars
If The 1968 Orbat was used then the KRH Lineage may be - 14/20th Kings Hussars - Royal Hussars - 10th Hussars - 11th Hussars (10th & 11th amalgamated in 1969 to become Royal Hussars)
If the 1993 Orbat was used then it would be straight forward KRH - 1 Paving stone

In the first case are we talking 3 paving stones at £3000 each = £9000
In the second case are we talking 5 paving stones at £3000 each = £15,000.

There are all sorts of possible outcomes and I think we should halt any speculation about what may or may not happen until we get the word after the meeting in November.

I am sure there will be a section of us that will just say, lets just get one of our own and just rely on ourselves to sort it out and it may yet come down to that.

For my part, I suggest we wait for Darryl to update us and for the November meeting.

Please do not take the above as Gospel and quote me on any indignant letters you send to MOD or anyone else.
This is purely my own thoughts on what I have been able to find out so far.

Website for National Memorial Arboretum http://www.thenma.org.uk

Regards to all
Johnny Morris

tigger
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby tigger » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:19 am

Good work John fromyou and Darryl both (you missed your calling you should have been a private investigator :lol: )

I agree whole heartedly will your thoughts that we should concern ourselves only with the interests of the 14th/20th, (after all that is what this CLUB is about) the others , in particular the living Regiment have greater resources to call on.

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby jc » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:24 am

When the NMA was conceived it was as an Arboretum. Regiments agreed to fund a tree for every soldier that had lost their life whilst on duty in Northern Ireland and these saplings were originally planted in groves with a small plaque (as seen in Darryl's photo)indicating which trees were which. Later on, to raise awareness and to draw visitors to what had become an obscure, unvisited site regimental/organisational memorials started sprouting up around the site. From this blossomed the current AFM with the control of the site being handed over to the Royal British Legion.

The one thing I question is the following paragraph from the NMA Appeal letter:

"We are advised that a successful way of raising money for the appeal is to sell space on paving stones to allow friends and relations to record the names of those they would like to be honoured for their service"

Yes it would raise money but mostly only from those that could afford it and who is to vet the names for "those that would like to be honoured for their service".

As for regimental slabs this has to be discussed by regimental Colonels from all regiments as there has to be agreement across the Army on this.

tigger
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby tigger » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:57 am

I am sure as any of us remaining 14/20 Hawks wouls like to have some thing more substancial than the little metal plaque,in the picture.

Many of us have already stated our readiness to put our hands in our pockets

what about having a design or designs drawn up as a pre curser to moving forward that we could vote on as the most suitable,and once the paper work trails have been resolved it will take less time to get some thing constructed that genuinely reflects the memorial to our fallen and Glorifies the Greatness of our Regiment

Trev

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Lynn » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:59 am

Please count me in for a contribution. Thank you.

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby dusty » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:12 am

Well done Trev,

What a refreshing change for someone to make the statement that would allow all members to vote on the final design of this memorial stone, after all they would be paying for it. May be Bob would like to put this out to all our members to have a bash at designing the aforementioned stone.

Cheers Dusty

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Johnny Morris » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:02 pm

As I understand things

If we go for the paving slab then I think it will be a set design of the Prussian Eagle with 14/20th Kings Hussars under it - or something very similar - at a set cost (at the moment) of £3000.

If we go for the other monument then the design should be totally up to us bearing in mind that the more intricate the design, carving, size etc obviously the much higher the costs will be.

I agree wholeheartedly that the design should come from within our ranks and should be approved by a majority vote and I wonder if we have any budding artists out there (or even better a stone mason). Does anyone know a guy who has access to Portland Stone for example, for the basic raw material?

I have asked Darryl if he can try and give us an update on how things are going but I am told that the National Arboretum/British legion move slowly when it comes to paperwork and bureaucracy.

Regards to all
Johnny Morris

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Shep
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Shep » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:13 pm

Hi Guys
I have tonight had a chat with a close friend who is a stone mason very interesting
He agrees with our thoughts Portland stone is favorable as it lasts forever
He also said the best people to do the job would be a memorial mason they have the
machines to cut print whatever we want and have the skills to carve the Hawk
if we want any help he has the contacts who could help

ATB

Shep
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Jockfoyle » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:54 am

I know a master mason who has worked on York Minster. Had a word with him and he said he would be very interested in this project. Bob, if you want I could put him in touch. He has already done work in the Arboretum working with Portland Stone.

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Darrylcartwright » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:03 am

Hi all,
Just a quick update...
I have spoken to the Arboretum and HHQ about the memorial.

At the moment, all cavalry regiments are in discussions about the memorials at the Arboretum and I am waiting on the outcomes.

However, I will continue with the costings so that they are ready, just in case. Initial look at the project and discussions with JC, it is going to be an extremely large sum of money, but I am also looking into grant applications, such as the Armed Forces Covenant (LIBOR) Fund.

Sorry that we haven't gone very far from the initial suggestion, but it is going to be a long process.

Darryl.

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Bob_H
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Bob_H » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:44 am

Thank you Darryl.

That's pretty much as expected and we should bide our time until the interested parties have all had there say.

Just thinking about some suggestion though (Tigger) about how we would like a memorial to look. I think the general consensus might be for a jagged slate memorial built by a monumental mason (Shep) along the lines of:

Image

However, we already have a precedence. I've had an idea that a memomorial based upon Havelock's memorial at Ramnuggar might go down well. It's a stone pyramidal that could be built with some stone and a good local brickie! :) With an opportunity for an inscription and/or badge on all four sides. Below are just ideas, not proposals. Add your own by all means.

Image

Image
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Bill Bentley
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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Bill Bentley » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:03 pm

I must say that I rather like the idea of a pyramid. It has four identical sides and so could display several features.

It was not without reason that the ancient Egyptians and other cultures built pyramids, I shan't bother people with details but pyramids have magical qualities, more eternal you just can't get ! Important is the orientation N.S.O. W. In the exact centre of such a pyramid, in a time capsule, things do not rot or rust. There we could perhaps place some significant piece of regimental history ... for all eternity.

Thought: For me the Guidon Sergeant Majors were the most important people in the regiment and before I tell everything wrongly I'll let our own experts present it as it was. You probably all know that I have a tick about flags and the very thought of those who defend 'the flag' being immortalized appeals to me personally.

Whilst I really like natural stone, as in Bob's photo, just another idea: We were, by and large a Lancashie Regiment, what about using a suitable Lancashire 'brick'. I remember the 'Accrington Brick' being a really hard wearing facing stone. If they are still in business ... maybe they (or another Lancashire brick company) would be willing to donate the required bricks, just an idea.

At the end of the day though it's going to be more a question of what they let us do rather than what we want to do but it's nice playing with ideas.

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Re: National Arboretum

Postby Bob_H » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:16 pm

Ah, yes. The Accrington Brick.

Good thinking. Bill.
Image
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