Saladin v Scorpion

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tigger
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Saladin v Scorpion

Postby tigger » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:57 am

My first posting from JLR was to Herford (I remember myself and Tom Smalley arriving at the Guardroom, it was pissing down and we were greeted by Harry Bennet who immediatly rifted us lol)

The Regiment were moving from Tidworth and re-equipping with Scorpion, although we still had ferrets Mk 2/6 and Scaracens Mk 2 and Jumbo's (Command vehicles not Lowery, I inherited that one as well)

I was wean on stories from the old sweats of how good Saladin was and what a crock Scorps were, and though I drove Scaracens and ferrets it wasn't untill a few years later I got my Hands on Saladin (Training for Cyprus) I personally found tha Saladin to be a better all round performer (apart from top speed).

It was roomier a more stable gun platform, just as reliable with good maintenance and in genaral able to go to 95% of the places that tracked scorps could go

So come on what do you think ?????

Cheers Trev

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Phil(Quassie)Baldwin
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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Phil(Quassie)Baldwin » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:49 am

Served on both as a gunner as long as it had a 76mm gun and a gunners sight I was happy must admit the Saladins X 7 was outclassed by the Scorps X 10 but hey what the hell .The blade vane sight on the Saladin against the Commanders X 10 sight on the scorp if you had one. When B.Sqn were issued our scorps after return from NI in 74 ours was an authorised defficentcy Me and Steve beavers had great fun on commision firing. We got on with it as we do. The Browning 30 L3A3. Agaist the GPMG no contest and no calico belt
Phil
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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby JOHN S LOINES » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:55 pm

Hi Trev and Phil , I prefered the saladin for the same reasons as Trev , And with less possibility of rolling over, than the scopion ? Hope you are all well .john L

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Mac McNulty » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:06 pm

Hi Fellas,

Passed my test at 17yrs old in a Saladin and did Belfast 1972 in them and Ferrets (Solly Moulton my first Commander in Belfast he was on secondment from Assault Troop to 2 Troop if I remember correctly), loved them but I also liked the Scorpion had some good exercises in them both as Driver and Gunner, Glory Hawk on the Moselle with the 17/21st being the best.

Then back on to Saladins for Cyprus, Saladins were a joy to drive but Scorpions give you a buzz zipping about at 65-70mph.

Scorpions just for me.

Cheers

Mac

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Paul Keller » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:15 pm

Didn't do Saladins, but certainly did Scorps, loved 'em, but not 'alf as much as Scimitars, being a Con Sig, gunnery was alien to me, never could understand why IG's strutted about with a permanant stiffy, then i discovered the 30mm Rarden, what a babe !
Best weapon i ever fired, especially on auto
Then it's Trooper this, an Trooper that
And Trooper how's yer soul?
But it's "Hawks are bloody 'ero's"
When the tanks began to roll!

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Phil(Quassie)Baldwin » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:33 pm

Saladin i was always worried about false neutrals had one going down hill in Hong Kong on driver training Roy Standish talked me through it but it always put me off.
Mac scorps dont turn over At the trials unit they asked for a Volanteer to follow a chieftain over hills more like knife edges in wet weather Hold me back I was straight in there. Knowing the scorp I thought I could do it I ripped of the final drive trying . I still prefer the scorpion I fired the Scimiter once not my bag One round one target for me.
Us and the 17/21st Covering force Big Al Smith had made himself a helmet they knew we hadent been issued them and they had he followed there convoy for ages sending sit reps
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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby kevman » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:34 pm

I must admit that, even as a pen pusher, I prefered the Saladin to the Scorpion. I commanded one upto gunnery camp in Malaya and back, think the driver was John Hodkinson (?)..also a couple of times in N.Ireland. It served us well in Singapore and also in N.Ireland. My brother, Brian, joined the regiment in Herford as a AFV (T) driver also with 'A' Squadron. He, being an ex qualifed motor mechanic, thought the Scorpion was underpowered and spent one weekend on the tank park supercharging the engine..!!! He got a bollocking from REME as I recall for disfiguring Her Majety's property, but I think his Troop Leader, Lt Tilney, praised him for doing a fine job.

John:

For stability and tendancy to roll...did we, 'A' Squadron, not roll one over in N.Ireland? I have the photos to prove it
very prominent in front of the upturned Saladin in the photo, is a brew kettle...!!!

Keep 'em Sharp.

Kev

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Les » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:24 pm

Not too sure about being underpowered. I was at ATDU when CVR were on trial. Ours had the original Jag engines in and could motor. Every so often we had to return one to MVEE at Chertsey. Had great fun doing 70 down the motorway.Not sure it was safe but what the heck.

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby JOHN S LOINES » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:53 am

Hi Kev . Can not remember an upturned saladin in N i. It would be grate to see the pics ,Should jolt a few brain cells.
No Comments please ?But i had the expierience of a scorpion with john gannon and chris mann ,doing a trev jones (chieftain tank Fame) on the range rd Hohne ,going belly up . All the best John L

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Phil(Quassie)Baldwin » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:25 am

While on the RAC sales team in 76 in Malaya A crop of rice was purchased from a local I was then sent into the paddy field with a Scorp minus turret crew and told to go wild while they filmed me. I attacked it with some gusto it started as a full crop of rice and was reduced to mud.
While training for the sales trip we was in the Ordanance depot Buller Bks Aldershot I came across my old Saladin 04CC59 amongst many others it looked very sad rust showing through the many coats of paint the gun pointing down over the left wing in submission.
Phil
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DRACSS
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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby DRACSS » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:00 pm

Best 76mm platform for accuracy , in my opinion was SALADIN, (Sincere apologies Phil, however you were the very best SCORPION gunner that i ever had the pleasure to command.)
THOSE WERE THE DAYS :D
DRAC
DRAC. IF YOU WERN"T CAV, YOU NEVER WERE,

BLESS ALL HAWKS, WHEREVER YOU MAY BE..

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Phil(Quassie)Baldwin
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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Phil(Quassie)Baldwin » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:12 am

Hi Drac
Each to his own but as I said in my first post.

Served on both as a gunner as long as it had a 76mm gun and a gunners sight I was happy .

A very misty Hohne morning Me "not observed" you " youve got a X10 sight" me "yes and it magnifies the mist 10 Xs"

We hit the bugger anyway
Phil
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tigger
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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby tigger » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:43 am

Aye up John

those Chieftains were notoriously unstable on hills, and no one told me, and besides as I said to Harry Best a big boy did it and ran away...........................

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby JOHN S LOINES » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:55 am

Hello Mr Jones , I was helping bluebell recover the afor mentioned mishap with the D6 .It certainly tested all there skills to get it back on its tracks, if i recall in a gully ,on its lid, and an incline . You don,t do things by halfs. Never did see that big boy who ran away. All the best trev . John L

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Re: Saladin v Scorpion

Postby Mac McNulty » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:08 am

I remember in the mid seventies I got a posting to MVEE at Chobham as a Test Driver and was posted to the Heavy Track Section (Army Logic coming from a Regiment working on Scorpions). A big part of my job was testing the suspension for a Tank that was then called the Shah of Iran obviously meant for the Iranian Army, however the Shah was deposed and the tank became the forerunner of the Challenger ( I remember the turret was surround by a big wooden box and I had to crawl into the Drivers hatch via a hole cut into the box).

The Suspension was the Hydro-gas type and we had it fitted to a couple of Chieftains at the time to help with the trial the performance difference was outstanding. I cannot recall whether it was trialed operationally on Chieftains perhaps some one can put me right on that.

Anyway the Light Track Section was doing a lot of experimenting with Scorpion at the time (although it was in service by then) and one of their test beds was a Scorpion chassis powered by a 8 litre Chevrolet Engine it was called the Wasp and used to zip around the test track faster than some of the Racing & Rally cars the track was sometimes hired out to.

Stevie Rowlett the ex REME Lad who transferred to us was there at the same as me and I seem to remember somebody else being there perhaps in the Light Track Section but for the life of me cannot remember who. Johnny Loines you weren't there were you?

Cheers

Mac


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