Kipling, Europe and Brexit

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Bill Bentley
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Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Bill Bentley » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:59 am

One of my favourite Kipling poems is 'If', it starts like this:

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

How fitting it is when I think about the current european confusion:

Mother Merkel is now being made aware that she broke not only German and European Law when she let a couple of million illegal immigrants enter Germany and split the German people into small groups, ruining her own re-election chances. In fact she made such a mess that she now can't even form a coalition government.
The little Frog stormed into power giving his people hope which has now evaporated and France has a very weak dictator who will be brought down by his own people soon.

So the two main anti Brexit nations are effectively headless at a moment when the Brexit talks MUST move on.

So, Mrs May are you going to lead us calmly through these crazy times ? I hope so, you have my support.

There's a lot at stake, not just having a deal or not having a deal, there is far more at stake than that, we MUST leave the European Union because it is falling apart from within. Not just Germany and France, look at Spain, Austria, Poland, together about half of the population of Europe, did I forget Italy and Greece ...

Brexit will free us from the madness which is just around the corner on the continent, then it's up to us to make a go of the new situation, again being an Island Nation. To achieve this Mrs May needs as much support as possible, opposing her efforts will have grave consequences, far worse than having or not having a deal with the EU.

At the end of the day it is up to each and every one of you to support or destroy our chances, your future and that of your kids and grandkids. It is not the right time to play party politics, for that there will be time in the future.

Let those who want to be Europeans move to Europe, that's the housing problem solved and avoids quite a lot of future unemployment too. Demand that those who choose to stay swear to support the Island Nation above all else. The europeans are our neighbours, let us hope for good neighbours but we can't reasonably be responsible for 27 other nations who are not even at peace within themselves let alone with each other, almost ignoring Turkey, Russia, the Middle East and Africa.

Let's put our own house in order first, only then can we help our friends !
.

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Hawk195 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:23 pm

Hi Bill

Just to keep you up to date I am watching the budget. Before that PMs ? time, in which she gave Corben much better
than she got. Bill when I was in berlin before the wall came down I crossed at Charlie went up to Frederick Strasse
station where we had a drink. crossed over the road and followed the side of a canal with a barracks on the other side of it. This lead to Unter den Linden where we came across what looked like a Catheral Bombed out. My ? is do you have any idea what the building was. turning right from the building and walking toward the Brandenburg gate
we came across the Facist Memorial. Mind you Berlin has changed a lot since 1967.

Tony
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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Bill Bentley » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:04 am

Hi Tony,

the budget seems to have gone down quite well, all things considered. The problem is Hammond has an impossible task as the people are all too focused upon their own selves. Somebody needs to say "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country !", even if it's been said before. If the people don't get it together and get it right there WILL BE decades of problems. This is 'IT' there will be no second chances, it's swim or sink and while swimming is not as comfortable as being on the boat, even in third class, it's a lot better than the alternative (fighting each other on the way down). We MUST make a success of Brexit like it or not !

As to your question, you have asked exactly the right person because I lived for ten years exactly there. I was the owners personal representative - Building Inspector for the complex on the corner of Luisenstr. and Schumannstr. He was so pleased with my efforts that, on completion, I became his building technician and rentals manager, we would say Caretaker-Manager.
So, you crossed the (famous) Marshall Brücke, turned left, (no barracks opposite in my day) followed the canal down to the Berliner Dom (Cathedral), where you arrive at Unter den Linden. Turning right, in a hundred yards or so, you reached the Grave of the Unknown Soldier, a memorial to the fallen Russians, more anti-faschist (been changed but still there). In another couple of hundred yards you would have reached the Brandenburger Gate; but I expect you turned left into Friedrichstr. and so back to CC. (You missed so much, the museum island etc. etc.). A friend of mine, in fact my first ever real school friend, got a super deal staying at the 'Westin Grand Hotel' on Friedrichstr. Flight from Manchester, three nights B&B for 300,- odd € for two people sharing. I can tell you, normally it costs upwards of 400,- € for a single night at this magnificent hotel; my absolute favourite.
From the Grand Westin you could do that same walk all over again and yes it has changed, well worth the lolly !

I had the great luck to have 20 odd engineers living in our building, they built the new main railways station (Hauptbahnhof) and had access to the closed site, the rebuilding of the Reichstag, and so I had free access to all of their projects. I watched the placement of the Krone Prinz Brücke, days of truly great engineering. Even had a ride on a track laying train, awesome ! Profitable times, but I'm happier out of the city and living quietly because these days the twats can't even plan and build an airport on time, let's not talk about the Billions of extra cost.
.

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby 27 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Bill.

I don't know if I have said this on another thread but my answer to the European problem would be to bring back capital punishment. This I believe automatically ensures you cannot be a member of European union. I think this is the main block to Turkeys entry as they still have the death sentence.


27,
YOU SIGN PHIL JONES :-( :-( :-( WE SIGN KUN AGUERO :-) :-) :-)
C.T.I.D. :-) :-) :-) ⓜⓒⓕⓒ I WAS THERE WHEN WE WERE SHIT ¿? ¿? ¿?

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Hawk195 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:11 pm

Hi Bill
Fancy that the one place I always wanted to know the name of. The Bar was just next to the main entrance of the station, all the troops drinking there thought we were poles. we spent quite a while walking round finally going to
the Gate to wave at the Int lads who were not allowed to cross into the east. I may have a look at a couple of days next year. The problem with the UK is that the number of people who have entered the UK have not been taken into
account I would love to know the percentage of people from outside against those who are from the UK are using the
the hospitals. This would give the answer why hospitals are out of beds. the same applies to surgeries.

Tony
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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Arnie » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:59 am

Hi Bill and Hawke195,
when were you in Berlin? and were told that the Int were not allowed to go into the East.
First went there for a 4 day visit to B Sqn from Hohne in 1960 before the Wall was built. Then after transferring to the Int Corps in 1967 went all over and my next to last posting was to Berlin, 3 Int and Security Coy based at the Olympic Stadium. Was there 3 years from 1976 to 1979. Came away with my [b]bit[b] of the Wall, collected original Wall rubble found after the Wall was upgraded in the Mid 70's.
The East was my second home. In fact we spent more time in the East than Jim Passam, B Sqn did in 1959 or 1960. He fell asleep on the S Bahn and they kept him for 3 months.
The Brit rules for entry was, out, by 0200 hrs or there was hell to pay. We often stayed overnight (officially) doing nefarious things. Once ran a social trip over for dinner at the Hotel Stadt Berlin on Karl Marx Allee just by Alexander Platz. We naughtily stayed until after 0215 hrs. Luckily the RMP manning CC knew us and didn't follow protocol so we were alright. (Incidentally why Checkpoint Charlie, and not Alpha or Bravo?? There are no prizes for knowing)
Great to be back enjoying the site!

Arnie :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Hawk195 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:33 pm

Arnie
I was at 7 amd bde with 9 flt in1966 to1968 when I returned to the regt. We went to berlin for 5 days and stayed at HQ berlin bde by the olmypic stadium. the int lads who went with us were mini bond and his able assistant who I cannot remember the name of. They were the one's who said they could not cross. could the fact that they were in uniform be a possible answer they could not cross. Arnie Iwas in the regiment before the wall went up also. I was in 3 troop A squadron on the Conq's.

TONY BINNS
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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Arnie » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:47 pm

Tony,
I was in RHQ in Hohne in 1959. The Regiment, A, C Sqns were in Saracens carrying Infantry Battalions, A The Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders in Detmold and C Sqn carrying the Gordon Highlanders in Celle. Until we all came together in Hohne and we got Centurians. As far as I understand the only unit in the entire British Army still with Conquerors was B Sqn in Berlin, though I could be wrong.
It was after we came together in Hohne that the powers that be saw the light and taught the infantry to drive themselves.
Tony you will notice from my profile that I served with 7 Armd Bde in Soltau from 1965 to 1967. I was in the NBC/Int Section, which is where I first came into contact with the Int Corps, hence the transfer.

Arnie :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Hawk195 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:18 pm

Arnie
Let's not have a pissing contest. I was with 9 Flt at 7th armoured. I did go to berlin, what does the kugelbacker
incident mean to you. The corporals mess was at the back of brigade hq near the MSO bar. did you know Jack Usher.
also at 7 bde was Joe Foster who came after me. I joined the regt after it came to Hohne. Sid Jude was A sqn SSM,
Charlie Osborne SQMS. This last lot is to say I don't tell lies, I have no need to they would not get me anywhere.
The odds are you are thinking of our John who joined the regt in 1968 and was in Hong Kong when you were there.

Tony
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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Arnie » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:15 am

Tony,
didn't in any way mean to have a pissing contest with anyone, so sorry if it sounded that way. I don't think I suggested in any way that you were telling lies
Don't remember having 9 Flt in the Reite Schule Barracks, in Soltau. I know they did have an AAC flight but have a blank in the memory as to where they were. I know they had a flight because I remember, out on the training area, putting them through the Gas Chamber when their annual 'respirator' test happened. Because I used a bit more gas than was recommended, when they gave me a ride in a Skeeter helicopter later, they tried everything to make me queezy. They failed for I enjoyed it immensely, even the 'torque turn' which the pilot, who had trashed a machine a few days before, told me had been banned.
Unfortunately I have no clue what the 'Kugelbacker' Incident was. I am surprised that I don't remember any of the Regiment being with 7 Bde at the time. I was still badged 14th/20th and took great pride in wearing my Red Cheesecutter cap.

Arnie :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Hawk195 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:55 am

Arnie

Final word. I was a observer on the skeeters, The pilot you mentioned was Dave Rogers, he wrote off a Souix? though
We were located on the parade ground which also was our Take off point. Our ground crew were Navy which caused
problems when marching and saluting. At one end of parade ground was a couple of tennis courts at the other was the sgts mess. Although we were all from different cav regts we all wore the blue beret and AAC cap badge. The K incident was they were sounding the elbe for depth and the eboats from the east would not allow them to sound their side although the Russians had given permission. This caused the Brigade to be turned out. Done.

Tony
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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Bill Bentley » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:07 pm

Hi Arnie,

great to have you back, especially with your first hand knowledge of those times. Also a good job that the 30 years rule applies to much of what you and Tony have said ! Not that it was not already published in 'Janes Weekly' back then anyway, but you know well enough how stupidly things can be interpreted. My first time on the other side was in about 85-86, I went through CC as a civi and was picked up by a member of Dixy and did a tour of the enemy's lines. It's pure coincidence that I now live in the area we toured back then. Although the old B5 road is now a duel carriageway, with motorway status, the old Russian Bks. (originally Kaisers Bks., then Hitlers Bks., later DDR Bks. around the Olympic Village) are still standing, though not for much longer as a holiday park will soon be built there.

Arnie, perhaps you can recall the name of the Bks. that Tony was looking for on the bank of the canal ?

Tony, the pub is now called the 'Steff' short for 'Ständige-Vertretung' a real 'in dive' for all want to be politicians and their arse creepers. What it was called in 67 I don't know.

If, when you came down the steps, having crossed the canal, had you gone straight on, along Albrecht Strasse, about 200 yards, you would have seen one of the ugliest bunkers ever built. (Corner of Schumann Strasse/Reinhard Strasse, it's still there !) It played a major role in diverting the Russians down Marien Strasse, during their advance on the Reichstag (they couldn't continue along the canal as the Reichstag appeared into view and was very well defended); house to house fighting of the meanest calibre !! Even when I got here in 96 this area had not been restored at all, it looked like the war had just finished, gruesome! Although now fully restored into fine town houses, there are one or two points where impact marks can still be seen on: a steel plate covering a cellar window and then on the old railway bridge just before the Kronprinz Brücke. Anyone understanding anything about a firefight will go cold when they see it, it must have been HELL !

27, (no point in talking to two Tony's),
I agree 100%, as long as guilt is proven ! We have recently had a case of a chemist who watered down drugs to treat cancer patients, so that many hundreds of people suffered and died because their treatment COULD NOT work. There is no question whatsoever of his personal guilt. He was in any event a very rich person, having inherited a 3rd generation, well running, chemists business, and so had no need to make further millions. I think he should be executed and it would not itch me one bit if it was done in public as an example to other murdering scum.

There are millions of good HONEST hard working people suffering because of the economic situation and I object to one single penny of my taxes going to keep this creature alive. If the lilly livered out there want to cover the cost of his continued life, about 100,000 per year, then let them pay for it, but don't forget there are many hundreds of such scumbags and the real cost is many, many millions, every year !
I should much prefer that HONEST medical staff can afford to treat those who have built our society, that schools and HONEST teachers be given the tools to do their job properly and that HONEST police, SERVING THE PUBLIC INTEREST should be paid their worth. Of course this all depends upon HONEST politicians doing their job properly ... now I'm going to puke !

So, bugger history, what are your opinions on the current state of affairs ? After all what happened yesterday will affect tomorrow ...
.

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Arnie » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:11 pm

Hi Bill and Tony,
afraid I cant help you with the name of the barracks, but isn't that awful building on the corner of Albrecht Str and Reinhardt Str one of the six enormous FLAK Towers Hitler had built around Berlin City to 'protect' him and his cronies from the incessant bombing of the Allies? Typical German engineering they were built so well it was found they were almost, almost, indestructible. If it is to make it an economical proposition, ie, rentable, they could only cut very small window spaces through the almost (?) 3 metre thick concrete walls
Going around the area on street level Google Earth there seems to be as many brothels around the area as there are in Stutgarter Platz, my old stomping ground. (You tell the brothels by the fact Google blur them out. If your looking for a brothel just look for the blurred out premises on Google Earth.

Arnie :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Arnie » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:42 pm

Bill,
incidentally, and nothing to do with Kipling, are you familiar with that building on the corner of Franzosische Str and Unterwasser Str? The four storey buiulding is all plastic sheeting and covers near a whole block. I was told that the owners ran out of gelt and covered it with that plastic sheeting the had it painted as an imposing four storey edifice until they got more money. My informant said it was many years old.

Arnie :? :? :? :? :? :? :?

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Re: Kipling, Europe and Brexit

Postby Bill Bentley » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:44 pm

Hi Arnie,

can't find a crossing Französische Str. Unterwasser Str., me thinks you mean the crossing with Friedrich Str., if so the building, which looks like it is covered with plastic, is in fact the Lafayette, covered in glass. This is one of the most exclusive shopping centers in the old East. Quatier 207, it goes underground for two full blocks and has some fantastic tiling work in the cellars. It's true that just after its opening some windows fell out, bloody dangerous ! But they got it fixed quickly enough. Personally I can't stand the sight of this ugly glass monster - from the outside - inside it is a gem ! Some of the finest eating and wine stands anywhere and loads of interesting little shops. And just around the back, the Gendarmenmarkt, one of Europe's most beautiful squares. I think it's fair to say that, because the DDR couldn't afford to demolish everything after the war, the DDR preserved many of Germany's most beautiful buildings; I don't like most modern architecture ...

It was niggling me so I've just had another look for Unterwasser Str., it's beyond the end of Französische Str. adjoining Werderscher Markt, got you. Your informant is going to be wrong on that point: When building or restoring some of the most prestigious objects, they actually cover everything in sheeting for reasons of public safety and to show off they paint the sheeting to show what will become of the project. It's true that they sometimes take years to complete. Just in that area there was a bombed out palace which they have wanted to rebuild for years and there were questions of funding and the way things go it always turns out to cost 5 to 10 times more as the starting price. However in this case it was more a question of recovering artifacts found during the excavation. Once the conservation people stick their noses in it can take forever, even if you have the money you can't do a thing !

Hope one of these answers is helpful :D.


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